Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Tyler Seacrest's avatar

You've now in a couple of places made one of your main arguments: if we think that experience includes some special stuff (spice), we do so for entirely functional reasons. That is because the functioning of neurons fully explains verbal reports, written descriptions, and even private thoughts about spice. We can therefore see that the source of spice isn't spice itself, but something about the wiring in our brains. This is illustrated by the idea of a zombie coming up with the same verbal reports, written descriptions, etc, even though spice cannot be the source of these descriptions for a zombie by definition of spice. Spice is thus an illusion, although illusion is perhaps not the best term to throw around in consciousness discussions. We still need to decide where this idea of spice comes from, and you've started to introduce the terminology to get there (Q. Ostensum being important I assume). But even before we see where spice comes from, we see spice is not real. This is a very strong argument.

Let me try to respond as a dualist. However keep in mind I'm not a 100% dualist, and I don't necessarily fully believe in this argument I'm about to give.

I'm a math guy, so here is a math analogy. Euclid defined lines as "breadthless length" and a point as "that which has no part", but these statements don't actually mean anything. In more modern treatments, we just leave these terms as undefined. A zombie can run through a geometry proof that if a triangle has two equal angles, they also have two equal sides. But all of that will be meaningless although correct symbol manipulation. Only when a human runs through the same proof do we get a proof that relates to real things that that human has experienced, because a human knows what lines and points actually are.

Similarly, if a zombie gives an eloquent argument about the magical nature of his own conscious experience, the argument isn't wrong per se but is simply meaningless because it's relying on undefined terms. When a human gives the same argument, it is correct because those same undefined terms take on meaning, not because the human is able to give a definition, but the human simply knows what they are through direct experience.

So you could say the source of spice for a zombie is an unfounded assumption, and for whatever reason it's a founded assumption on the part of the human.

Expand full comment
Mark Slight's avatar

I'm sorry but before I read it properly, what's a Hardist again? Can you put it in a sentence or two? My memory is shit and I have ADHD and I'm a slow reader but this seems really cool

Expand full comment
6 more comments...

No posts